UFOs - David Grusch and his witnesses
Published online (October 2023).
The numbers in parentheses indicate the references,
which can be found at the bottom of the page.
This is
a sequel to UFOs -
The Nimitz incident (see A summary and The aftermath).
2019: The UAPTF hires people of reference, investigators, in the various branches of the DoD. One of these is David Grusch, who has been working for 14 years as the equivalent of a colonel at NRO (National Reconnaissance Office). The NRO is one of the DoD's Big Five together with CIA, NSA, DIA and NGA.
2020-2021: Grusch has a great reputation in the DoD ("beyond reproach", as said by Colonel Karl Nell), and he has every possible clearance. In these two years, up to 40 colleagues from different agencies, including close friends and people he's been in contact with for more than a decade, go to him to report something shocking: up to 12-15 alien craft have been recovered and kept secret since the 1940s. Both the Congress and most of the DoD were kept in the dark. The sources (in most cases, direct witnesses who put their own hands on the craft) explain that they feel and fear that this is all illegal, and they trust Grusch to finally be the one who can properly report what's happening. At first, Grusch thinks that this is all a joke or that these could be disinformants. But as the sources increase in number, he makes sure that they are not in touch one with the others, he collects reports and information, and the whole thing becomes just too big and consistent to be simply made up. He builds up a 200-page report with all possible details: names of the people working in and running the retrieval programs, names of the people in the DoD who are keeping the programs secret (about 50 "gatekeepers"), locations where the craft are kept, what was recovered, where it was recovered, etc.
July 2021: Grusch wants to do everything strictly by the rules, so he brings the report to the Department of Defense Inspector General (DoD IG, Robert Storch). However, after doing that, "Mr Grusch believes that his identity and the fact of his UAP-related communication with the DoD IG have been disclosed to individuals and/or entities outside the DoD IG, and that he has suffered retaliation and reprisal related thereto. Since his protected disclosure to the DoD IG, Mr Grusch has been subjected to numerous adverse security clearance actions. These actions have unfairly and unjustifiably impugned his integrity, character, judgment, professionalism, and mental health. While he remains security-cleared by the NGA, his compartmented accesses at numerous other IC elements have been - mysteriously and apparently without plausible explanation - cancelled, delayed, denied, and/or improperly obstructed" (3).
May 2022: Grusch's lawyer sends the above complaint to the DoD IG, adding that Grusch "now wishes to directly communicate the classified specifics of his UAP-related Urgent Concern(s) to the US Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (SSCI) and the US House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence (HPSCI)" (3).
July 2022: As per required procedure, Grusch's 200-page report goes first to the Intelligence Community Inspector General (IC IG, Thomas Monheim), who finds it "credible, urgent" and worth further investigation. Then a summary goes to SSCI and HPSCI. In case you still thought he was the victim of a big joke, not just Grusch, but even all his sources, testify behind closed doors to the IC IG.
The House votes and approves "a secure government system for reporting UFOs and to compel current and former officials to reveal what they know about the mysterious phenomena by promising to protect them from reprisal", a system that is hopefully going to "open the floodgates" (5) (amendment 1).
Also in the same month, UAPTF becomes AARO (All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office), directed by physicist Sean Kirkpatrick. Grusch says that he tried to inform AARO about his findings but they didn't get back to him. AARO denies that he contacted them, maintains that Grusch's allegations about the retrieval programs are baseless, and insists that there's no proof of aliens. The feud is still there.
April 2023: Grusch resigns from the DoD and provides the Defense Office of Prepublication and Security Review at the DoD with the (generic) information he intends to disclose to the general public. His on-the-record statements get all "cleared for open publication" on April 4 and 6. Many people ask: "If he's gonna say all these secrets about the military, why is the military clearing his material for publication?". 1) The Prepublication Office wants to make sure that no specifics are given, like "We have a secret base here, we have a secret agent named John White there", etc. As long as Grusch stays generic, he can dodge censorship. 2) If said office - or better, various DoD entities through the said office - wants to censor something, it has to provide a specific legal reason for that. Providing a specific reason could create more problems for those entities than just allowing Grusch to publish his generic claims.
June 2023: Grusch goes public with an interview with reporter Ross Coulthart, the case explodes: video. Ten minutes after the interview, the DoD releases a statement explaining that "to date, AARO has not discovered any verifiable information to substantiate claims that any programs regarding the possession or reverse engineering of extraterrestrial materials have existed in the past or exist currently".
By the end of the month, the Senate creates an amendment to the IAA (Intelligence Authorization Act) bill for 2024: any person under contract with the government who has material or information relating to UAP has to notify AARO within 60 days of the IAA enactment; no later than 180 days after the IAA's passage, the officials need to make all such material and information available to AARO; no amount will be authorized to activities involving UAP that have not been justified to AARO and Congress. The legislation applies to any activities relating to the following: recruiting personnel with a mission of capturing, recovering and securing UAP; analyzing such craft; managing security for protecting activities relating to UAP from disclosure; actions relating to reverse engineering; development of propulsion technology that is based on UAP; any craft that uses propulsion technology other than chemical propellants, solar power or electric ion thrust (amendment 2).
July 2023: Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and Senators Mike Rounds, Marco Rubio, Kristen Gillibrand, Todd Young and Martin Heinrich create an amendment to the NDAA (National Defense Authorization Act) bill for 2024, establishing that "the federal government shall have eminent domain over any and all recovered technologies of unknown origin (TUO) and biological evidence of non-human intelligence (NHI) that may be controlled by private persons or entities in the interests of the public good. After the Review Board has made a formal determination concerning public disclosure or postponement, the President will have the sole ability to overturn or concur such determination" (7) (amendment 3).
Two weeks later, the House Oversight Committee (crusade led by Tim Burchett, but we also have Glenn Grothman, Anna Paulina Luna, Matt Gaetz, Virginia Foxx, Maxwell Frost, Andy Biggs, Eric Burlison, Nancy Mace, Nick Langworthy, Jamie Raskin, Andy Ogles, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Robert Garcia and Jared Moskowitz) holds a public hearing with David Grusch, Ryan Graves and David Fravor: video. We hear their stories again. Nothing new, apart from the fact that the DoD opposed the hearing until the last minute, and that even if Grusch offered to provide - behind closed doors and to anybody who has the right clearance - all the details regarding the people involved in the retrieval programs, the locations where the craft are kept, what was recovered, where it was recovered, etc., soon after the hearing the DoD called to point out that nobody there has the clearance to hear any of that. I guess the hearing was mainly meant to send a message: "Hic manebimus optime".
August 2023: The DoD/AARO launches a new website that will house photos and videos about UFO cases as they are declassified and approved for public release: link. Kathleen Hicks, Deputy Secretary of Defense, becomes the new head of AARO. "Inaugural Director" Kirkpatrick stays but reports to her.
September 2023: Burchett writes to the IC IG requesting "to investigate the claims that military officials are withholding information from Congress about UAPs following a hearing last month". The IC IG replies that it "has not conducted any audit, inspection, evaluation, or review of alleged UAP programs within the responsibility and authority of the DNI that would enable this office to provide a fulsome response to your questions" (9). Burchett calls cover-up on X (Twitter). People note that the IC IG might be playing with semantic, as it has different divisions: "the Mission Support Division, Audit Division, Inspections & Evaluations Division, Investigations Division, and then the Counsel to the IG and the Center for Protected Disclosures" (10).
October 2023: Burchett and colleagues will be granted access to Grusch's report in a SCIF with DoD IG and IC IG. That should happen before the end of the year. Burchett's comment: "I'll believe it when I see it" (11). A first SCIF turns out to be very disappointing and it shows the DoD's rubber wall - as we call it in Italy - at its best: video.
AARO publishes its periodical report: nearly 300 UFO sightings over the past year, some possibly being creations of foreign governments trying to spy on the U.S. Some of these objects exhibited "concerning performance characteristics", including high-speed travel and "unusual maneuverability".
A diffused suspicion by the general public that AARO is somewhat compromised gains credibility, as it seems the organization is secretly lead by the gatekeepers: video.
November 2023: AARO creates a form that government employees can fill if they know anything about UFOs and retrieval programs.
Kirkpatrick steps down from AARO: "I'm ready to move on. I have accomplished everything I said I was going to do".
The Daily Mail interviews three anonymous witnesses and produces another bombshell article that I summarize here:
The CIA coordinates the recovery and storage of UFOs, it's the portfolio manager of the crash retrieval operation. It has a system in place that can discern UFOs while they're cloaked, and if they land or crash, special military units are sent to try to salvage the wreckage.
The OGA (Office of Global Access, a wing of CIA) provides worldwide collection capability, it allows the military to secretly access areas around the world where they would usually be denied. The Air Force Special Operations Command's 24th Special Tactics Squadron, based at Pope Field Army Airbase in North Carolina, has also been involved in securing areas for UFO crash retrievals. OGA and 24th get the UFO into custody and protect the secrecy of it, the actual physical retrieval is by SEAL teams or Delta Force under the Pentagon's JSOC.
The UFO can't be kept under military control, because they have to keep too many records, so the CIA hands the material over to private contractors for analysis, where it's not subject to government audits and can be shielded with protections for trade secrets. The Department of Energy national labs are the contractors that handle the radioactive material, the aerospace-defense industry are the contractors that handle the non-radioactive material and intact craft. Due to compartmentalization, by the time the material gets actually studied, the person has no idea of what he's studying.
December 2023: Schumer's amendment 3 gets watered down by the usual suspects: there won't be a review board that can go through the UFO material and deal with the disclosure; the federal government won't have any domain over recovered UFOs; there won't be any disclosure if it 1) poses a threat to national defense, 2) compromises national intelligence, 3) threatens sources and methods of intel gathering, 4) compromises any federal agents. Basically, you will be allowed to eat all the apples you want, as long as you don't eat apples. All in this short video, more comments in this video, and tons of videos of angry people all over YouTube.
January 2024: Burchett and colleagues get a second briefing with the IC IG. Burchett: "We were playing Whack-a-Mole in our efforts to elicit information from the executive branch". However, his colleagues say that what they heard supports Grusch's claims, that they all got some new pieces of information, that the picture is more clear, and that the needle is moving forward.
April 2024: Burchett and colleagues get a third briefing. Nothing new, "arrogance", "cover-up" and "compartmentalized" remain the key words: video.
David Grusch
2019: The UAPTF hires people of reference, investigators, in the various branches of the DoD. One of these is David Grusch, who has been working for 14 years as the equivalent of a colonel at NRO (National Reconnaissance Office). The NRO is one of the DoD's Big Five together with CIA, NSA, DIA and NGA.
2020-2021: Grusch has a great reputation in the DoD ("beyond reproach", as said by Colonel Karl Nell), and he has every possible clearance. In these two years, up to 40 colleagues from different agencies, including close friends and people he's been in contact with for more than a decade, go to him to report something shocking: up to 12-15 alien craft have been recovered and kept secret since the 1940s. Both the Congress and most of the DoD were kept in the dark. The sources (in most cases, direct witnesses who put their own hands on the craft) explain that they feel and fear that this is all illegal, and they trust Grusch to finally be the one who can properly report what's happening. At first, Grusch thinks that this is all a joke or that these could be disinformants. But as the sources increase in number, he makes sure that they are not in touch one with the others, he collects reports and information, and the whole thing becomes just too big and consistent to be simply made up. He builds up a 200-page report with all possible details: names of the people working in and running the retrieval programs, names of the people in the DoD who are keeping the programs secret (about 50 "gatekeepers"), locations where the craft are kept, what was recovered, where it was recovered, etc.
July 2021: Grusch wants to do everything strictly by the rules, so he brings the report to the Department of Defense Inspector General (DoD IG, Robert Storch). However, after doing that, "Mr Grusch believes that his identity and the fact of his UAP-related communication with the DoD IG have been disclosed to individuals and/or entities outside the DoD IG, and that he has suffered retaliation and reprisal related thereto. Since his protected disclosure to the DoD IG, Mr Grusch has been subjected to numerous adverse security clearance actions. These actions have unfairly and unjustifiably impugned his integrity, character, judgment, professionalism, and mental health. While he remains security-cleared by the NGA, his compartmented accesses at numerous other IC elements have been - mysteriously and apparently without plausible explanation - cancelled, delayed, denied, and/or improperly obstructed" (3).
May 2022: Grusch's lawyer sends the above complaint to the DoD IG, adding that Grusch "now wishes to directly communicate the classified specifics of his UAP-related Urgent Concern(s) to the US Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (SSCI) and the US House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence (HPSCI)" (3).
July 2022: As per required procedure, Grusch's 200-page report goes first to the Intelligence Community Inspector General (IC IG, Thomas Monheim), who finds it "credible, urgent" and worth further investigation. Then a summary goes to SSCI and HPSCI. In case you still thought he was the victim of a big joke, not just Grusch, but even all his sources, testify behind closed doors to the IC IG.
The House votes and approves "a secure government system for reporting UFOs and to compel current and former officials to reveal what they know about the mysterious phenomena by promising to protect them from reprisal", a system that is hopefully going to "open the floodgates" (5) (amendment 1).
Also in the same month, UAPTF becomes AARO (All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office), directed by physicist Sean Kirkpatrick. Grusch says that he tried to inform AARO about his findings but they didn't get back to him. AARO denies that he contacted them, maintains that Grusch's allegations about the retrieval programs are baseless, and insists that there's no proof of aliens. The feud is still there.
April 2023: Grusch resigns from the DoD and provides the Defense Office of Prepublication and Security Review at the DoD with the (generic) information he intends to disclose to the general public. His on-the-record statements get all "cleared for open publication" on April 4 and 6. Many people ask: "If he's gonna say all these secrets about the military, why is the military clearing his material for publication?". 1) The Prepublication Office wants to make sure that no specifics are given, like "We have a secret base here, we have a secret agent named John White there", etc. As long as Grusch stays generic, he can dodge censorship. 2) If said office - or better, various DoD entities through the said office - wants to censor something, it has to provide a specific legal reason for that. Providing a specific reason could create more problems for those entities than just allowing Grusch to publish his generic claims.
June 2023: Grusch goes public with an interview with reporter Ross Coulthart, the case explodes: video. Ten minutes after the interview, the DoD releases a statement explaining that "to date, AARO has not discovered any verifiable information to substantiate claims that any programs regarding the possession or reverse engineering of extraterrestrial materials have existed in the past or exist currently".
By the end of the month, the Senate creates an amendment to the IAA (Intelligence Authorization Act) bill for 2024: any person under contract with the government who has material or information relating to UAP has to notify AARO within 60 days of the IAA enactment; no later than 180 days after the IAA's passage, the officials need to make all such material and information available to AARO; no amount will be authorized to activities involving UAP that have not been justified to AARO and Congress. The legislation applies to any activities relating to the following: recruiting personnel with a mission of capturing, recovering and securing UAP; analyzing such craft; managing security for protecting activities relating to UAP from disclosure; actions relating to reverse engineering; development of propulsion technology that is based on UAP; any craft that uses propulsion technology other than chemical propellants, solar power or electric ion thrust (amendment 2).
July 2023: Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and Senators Mike Rounds, Marco Rubio, Kristen Gillibrand, Todd Young and Martin Heinrich create an amendment to the NDAA (National Defense Authorization Act) bill for 2024, establishing that "the federal government shall have eminent domain over any and all recovered technologies of unknown origin (TUO) and biological evidence of non-human intelligence (NHI) that may be controlled by private persons or entities in the interests of the public good. After the Review Board has made a formal determination concerning public disclosure or postponement, the President will have the sole ability to overturn or concur such determination" (7) (amendment 3).
Two weeks later, the House Oversight Committee (crusade led by Tim Burchett, but we also have Glenn Grothman, Anna Paulina Luna, Matt Gaetz, Virginia Foxx, Maxwell Frost, Andy Biggs, Eric Burlison, Nancy Mace, Nick Langworthy, Jamie Raskin, Andy Ogles, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Robert Garcia and Jared Moskowitz) holds a public hearing with David Grusch, Ryan Graves and David Fravor: video. We hear their stories again. Nothing new, apart from the fact that the DoD opposed the hearing until the last minute, and that even if Grusch offered to provide - behind closed doors and to anybody who has the right clearance - all the details regarding the people involved in the retrieval programs, the locations where the craft are kept, what was recovered, where it was recovered, etc., soon after the hearing the DoD called to point out that nobody there has the clearance to hear any of that. I guess the hearing was mainly meant to send a message: "Hic manebimus optime".
August 2023: The DoD/AARO launches a new website that will house photos and videos about UFO cases as they are declassified and approved for public release: link. Kathleen Hicks, Deputy Secretary of Defense, becomes the new head of AARO. "Inaugural Director" Kirkpatrick stays but reports to her.
September 2023: Burchett writes to the IC IG requesting "to investigate the claims that military officials are withholding information from Congress about UAPs following a hearing last month". The IC IG replies that it "has not conducted any audit, inspection, evaluation, or review of alleged UAP programs within the responsibility and authority of the DNI that would enable this office to provide a fulsome response to your questions" (9). Burchett calls cover-up on X (Twitter). People note that the IC IG might be playing with semantic, as it has different divisions: "the Mission Support Division, Audit Division, Inspections & Evaluations Division, Investigations Division, and then the Counsel to the IG and the Center for Protected Disclosures" (10).
October 2023: Burchett and colleagues will be granted access to Grusch's report in a SCIF with DoD IG and IC IG. That should happen before the end of the year. Burchett's comment: "I'll believe it when I see it" (11). A first SCIF turns out to be very disappointing and it shows the DoD's rubber wall - as we call it in Italy - at its best: video.
AARO publishes its periodical report: nearly 300 UFO sightings over the past year, some possibly being creations of foreign governments trying to spy on the U.S. Some of these objects exhibited "concerning performance characteristics", including high-speed travel and "unusual maneuverability".
A diffused suspicion by the general public that AARO is somewhat compromised gains credibility, as it seems the organization is secretly lead by the gatekeepers: video.
November 2023: AARO creates a form that government employees can fill if they know anything about UFOs and retrieval programs.
Kirkpatrick steps down from AARO: "I'm ready to move on. I have accomplished everything I said I was going to do".
The Daily Mail interviews three anonymous witnesses and produces another bombshell article that I summarize here:
The CIA coordinates the recovery and storage of UFOs, it's the portfolio manager of the crash retrieval operation. It has a system in place that can discern UFOs while they're cloaked, and if they land or crash, special military units are sent to try to salvage the wreckage.
The OGA (Office of Global Access, a wing of CIA) provides worldwide collection capability, it allows the military to secretly access areas around the world where they would usually be denied. The Air Force Special Operations Command's 24th Special Tactics Squadron, based at Pope Field Army Airbase in North Carolina, has also been involved in securing areas for UFO crash retrievals. OGA and 24th get the UFO into custody and protect the secrecy of it, the actual physical retrieval is by SEAL teams or Delta Force under the Pentagon's JSOC.
The UFO can't be kept under military control, because they have to keep too many records, so the CIA hands the material over to private contractors for analysis, where it's not subject to government audits and can be shielded with protections for trade secrets. The Department of Energy national labs are the contractors that handle the radioactive material, the aerospace-defense industry are the contractors that handle the non-radioactive material and intact craft. Due to compartmentalization, by the time the material gets actually studied, the person has no idea of what he's studying.
December 2023: Schumer's amendment 3 gets watered down by the usual suspects: there won't be a review board that can go through the UFO material and deal with the disclosure; the federal government won't have any domain over recovered UFOs; there won't be any disclosure if it 1) poses a threat to national defense, 2) compromises national intelligence, 3) threatens sources and methods of intel gathering, 4) compromises any federal agents. Basically, you will be allowed to eat all the apples you want, as long as you don't eat apples. All in this short video, more comments in this video, and tons of videos of angry people all over YouTube.
January 2024: Burchett and colleagues get a second briefing with the IC IG. Burchett: "We were playing Whack-a-Mole in our efforts to elicit information from the executive branch". However, his colleagues say that what they heard supports Grusch's claims, that they all got some new pieces of information, that the picture is more clear, and that the needle is moving forward.
April 2024: Burchett and colleagues get a third briefing. Nothing new, "arrogance", "cover-up" and "compartmentalized" remain the key words: video.
What we know
This is the little
information that has leaked so far.
How many witnesses do we have?
Grusch mentioned 40 witnesses involved with the actual retrieval programs (6).
As of September 2023, 30-50 witnesses seem to have given testimony to AARO and/or Congress and/or DoD IG and/or IC IG (2). In 2024 Grusch made very clear that none of his 40 witnesses spoke with AARO, because they know pretty well that it would be like reporting to the mafia about their activity as rats.
Two problems here:
- The witnesses are anonymous, so it's hard to tell apart the witnesses of Grusch's group from the other whistleblowers who used amendment 1. In the best case, they are "high-ranking intelligence officials, former intelligence officials, or individuals who we could verify were involved in U.S. government UAP efforts for three or more decades" (1), followed by "government employees or contractors" (2), with even the risk of disinformants (2).
- Amendment 1 frees the witnesses from the non-disclosure agreement and protects them from reprisal, but it seems they can only talk with people who have the right clearance. Who has the clearance to hear what, is not clear. Often not even for the people with the clearance. Are Storch and Monheim the only two who officially read the whole Grusch's package? About all the others, the confusion persists: who said what to whom? The above video said it best.
How many craft do we have?
Source A - "I know of at least 12-15 craft" (1).
Source B - "Six were in good shape, six were not in good shape" (1).
Three witnesses to the Daily Mail: nine craft have been recovered, seven wrecked from a crash and two completely intact (14).
How did we get these craft?
Source A - "Every five years, we get one or two recovered for one reason or another, from either a landing or that we catch, or they just crash" (1).
Source B - "There were cases where the craft landed, and the occupants left the craft unoccupied" (1).
The CIA coordinates the recovery and storage of UFOs, it's the portfolio manager of the crash retrieval operation. It has a system in place that can discern UFOs while they're cloaked, and if they land or crash, special military units are sent to try to salvage the wreckage. The OGA (Office of Global Access, a wing of CIA) provides worldwide collection capability, it allows the military to secretly access areas around the world where they would usually be denied. The Air Force Special Operations Command's 24th Special Tactics Squadron, based at Pope Field Army Airbase in North Carolina, has also been involved in securing areas for UFO crash retrievals. OGA and 24th get the UFO into custody and protect the secrecy of it, the actual physical retrieval is by SEAL teams or Delta Force under the Pentagon's JSOC (14).
What shape are the craft?
Source B - "There were at least four morphologies, different structures" (1).
Source C - "One source described having seen three kinds of craft, including one shaped like a triangle and another that "looked like a chopped up helicopter, with the front bubble of a Huey helicopter, with the plastic windows, or more like a deep sea submarine, with a thick piece of glass bubble shaped, and where the tail rudder should have been, it was a black, egg-shaped pancake, and instead of landing gear it had upside-down rams horns that went from the top to the bottom and rested on the ends of the horns" (1). Long before this article, someone described and drew a UFO with the same odd shape: link. Hardly a coincidence.
An article mentions the "successful reverse engineering of a triangle-shaped craft with unconventional propulsion" (2).
One is the so-called Mussolini UFO, which was bell-shaped, but Grusch explains that the bell shape is due to the craft having lost in the crash the "typical" flat ring that surrounds the centre.
Michael Herrera described an octagonal, tent-shaped craft (image by Daily Mail) (4). If this is reverse-engineered, did they keep the shape of the original one or just the technology?
Coulthart claims that one craft (not in the U.S.) is so big that it couldn't be moved, so they built the facilities directly over it: video.
Daniel Sheehan said that one recovery, recounted to him by a whistleblower who has briefed the Senate Intelligence Committee, involved a saucer partially embedded in the earth, with some fantastical properties: "They tried to hook a bulldozer to it to pull it out. And it pulled out a shape like a pie slice, almost like it was part of the way it was constructed. When it came loose a couple feet, they stopped immediately. They didn't want to destroy the integrity of the machine. They had a guy go into it. He got in there, and it was as big as a football stadium. It was freaking him out and started making him feel nauseous, he was so disoriented because it was so gigantic inside. It was the size of a football stadium, while the outside was only about 10 metres in diameter. And space was not the only warped dimension around the craft. He staggered back out after being in there a couple of minutes, and outside it was four hours later. There was all kinds of time distortion and space distortion" (15). The same story was reported by Grusch. Is this the unmovable UFO that Coulthart is talking about?
Graves describes someone's report (unrelated to the retrieval programs) about a giant red cube (2003): video, video.
Again unrelated to the retrieval programs, there's the USS Nimitz's tictac (2004) and there's the USS Reagan's orange plasma sphere (2004).
Where are they kept?
"The sources said that the Pentagon and military contractors keep the nonhuman spacecraft in different locations, including Area 51 in Nevada, and that they move the craft around to different facilities, both military bases and contractor facilities, for research" (1).
In the interview with Joe Rogan, Grusch reports the words of Senator Harry Reid, who says that the remains of a UFO recovered in the 1950s are in the hands of Lockheed Martin, who wanted to get rid of them (given the level of secrecy, they can't call anyone to do the reverse engineering, and therefore having the material becomes useless). Reid founded the AAWSAP to create a suitable holding structure, and then tried to obtain, manage and study the aforementioned material, but the CIA did not allow it. This story matches perfectly with the one reported in Shellenberger's article (last part, "The trouble with secrecy"), which however does not name any names.
Retrieved UFOs can't be kept under military control, because they have to keep too many records, so the CIA hands the material over to private contractors for analysis, where it's not subject to government audits and can be shielded with protections for trade secrets. The Department of Energy national labs are the contractors that handle the radioactive material, the aerospace-defense industry are the contractors that handle the non-radioactive material and intact craft (14).
Where do they come from? What are they doing here?
Out of so many witnesses, none seem to have the slightest idea about that.
Do we have alien bodies?
Grusch said that "nonhuman biologics" have been recovered (6) and that "naturally, when you recover something that's either landed or crashed, sometimes you encounter dead pilots" (8). In the interview with Rogan, he said that the people who studied these biologics only have "some idea, not a complete picture" of what they are dealing with, given the difference with the human physiology; regarding a real interaction with aliens, the witnesses did not want to talk about it: video.
An article mentions the "contact and collaboration with nonhuman intelligence" (2).
Are these aliens hostile?
An article mentions the "contact and collaboration with nonhuman intelligence" (2).
An article mentions "kinetic military action with UAPs", meaning attack and/or being attacked (2).
What countries are involved apart from the U.S.?
Source? - "Some of the tech is very cutting-edge, and they have to travel to places like Italy, Belgium, and Indonesia to do flight testing" (1).
Sources A, B, C "suspected that the Chinese and Russians had also retrieved craft, but they did not know for certain" (1).
Michael Herrera's story happened in Indonesia and it involves a craft likely obtained with reverse engineering (4).
An article mentions "first-hand and second-hand reports of crash retrieval and reverse engineering programs by U.S., Russian, and Chinese governments" (2).
Did we manage to operate or reverse-engineer the craft?
Source? - "As far as I know, we are not able to operate them. There are people who say we have reverse-engineered them and are flying them. I never found any support for that. And found a lot of support for saying we can't figure it out" (1).
Source? - "The U.S. has been able to fly at least one of the retrieved craft" (1). "Some of the tech is very cutting-edge, and they have to travel to places like Italy, Belgium, and Indonesia to do flight testing. It's worldwide. Some of our allies know about the programs" (1).
Michael Herrera's story happened in Indonesia and it involves a craft likely obtained with reverse engineering (4).
An article mentions the "successful reverse engineering of a triangle-shaped craft with unconventional propulsion" (2).
Is anybody trying to stop this disclosure?
Lloyd Austin, Secretary of Defense (2, paid-for).
Mike Turner (R), Chair of the House Intelligence Committee (2, paid-for; 12, 13).
Mark Warner (D), Chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee (2, paid-for).
Mike Rogers (R), Chair of the House Armed Services Committee (12, 13).
Mitch McConnell (R), Senate Minority Leader (13).
Mike Johnson (R), Speaker of the House (13).
1. Michael Shellenberger, June 2023. Article.
2. Michael Shellenberger, September 2023. Article.
3. Complaint of Reprisal, May 2022. File.
Grusch mentioned 40 witnesses involved with the actual retrieval programs (6).
As of September 2023, 30-50 witnesses seem to have given testimony to AARO and/or Congress and/or DoD IG and/or IC IG (2). In 2024 Grusch made very clear that none of his 40 witnesses spoke with AARO, because they know pretty well that it would be like reporting to the mafia about their activity as rats.
Two problems here:
- The witnesses are anonymous, so it's hard to tell apart the witnesses of Grusch's group from the other whistleblowers who used amendment 1. In the best case, they are "high-ranking intelligence officials, former intelligence officials, or individuals who we could verify were involved in U.S. government UAP efforts for three or more decades" (1), followed by "government employees or contractors" (2), with even the risk of disinformants (2).
- Amendment 1 frees the witnesses from the non-disclosure agreement and protects them from reprisal, but it seems they can only talk with people who have the right clearance. Who has the clearance to hear what, is not clear. Often not even for the people with the clearance. Are Storch and Monheim the only two who officially read the whole Grusch's package? About all the others, the confusion persists: who said what to whom? The above video said it best.
How many craft do we have?
Source A - "I know of at least 12-15 craft" (1).
Source B - "Six were in good shape, six were not in good shape" (1).
Three witnesses to the Daily Mail: nine craft have been recovered, seven wrecked from a crash and two completely intact (14).
How did we get these craft?
Source A - "Every five years, we get one or two recovered for one reason or another, from either a landing or that we catch, or they just crash" (1).
Source B - "There were cases where the craft landed, and the occupants left the craft unoccupied" (1).
The CIA coordinates the recovery and storage of UFOs, it's the portfolio manager of the crash retrieval operation. It has a system in place that can discern UFOs while they're cloaked, and if they land or crash, special military units are sent to try to salvage the wreckage. The OGA (Office of Global Access, a wing of CIA) provides worldwide collection capability, it allows the military to secretly access areas around the world where they would usually be denied. The Air Force Special Operations Command's 24th Special Tactics Squadron, based at Pope Field Army Airbase in North Carolina, has also been involved in securing areas for UFO crash retrievals. OGA and 24th get the UFO into custody and protect the secrecy of it, the actual physical retrieval is by SEAL teams or Delta Force under the Pentagon's JSOC (14).
What shape are the craft?
Source B - "There were at least four morphologies, different structures" (1).
Source C - "One source described having seen three kinds of craft, including one shaped like a triangle and another that "looked like a chopped up helicopter, with the front bubble of a Huey helicopter, with the plastic windows, or more like a deep sea submarine, with a thick piece of glass bubble shaped, and where the tail rudder should have been, it was a black, egg-shaped pancake, and instead of landing gear it had upside-down rams horns that went from the top to the bottom and rested on the ends of the horns" (1). Long before this article, someone described and drew a UFO with the same odd shape: link. Hardly a coincidence.
An article mentions the "successful reverse engineering of a triangle-shaped craft with unconventional propulsion" (2).
One is the so-called Mussolini UFO, which was bell-shaped, but Grusch explains that the bell shape is due to the craft having lost in the crash the "typical" flat ring that surrounds the centre.
Michael Herrera described an octagonal, tent-shaped craft (image by Daily Mail) (4). If this is reverse-engineered, did they keep the shape of the original one or just the technology?
Coulthart claims that one craft (not in the U.S.) is so big that it couldn't be moved, so they built the facilities directly over it: video.
Daniel Sheehan said that one recovery, recounted to him by a whistleblower who has briefed the Senate Intelligence Committee, involved a saucer partially embedded in the earth, with some fantastical properties: "They tried to hook a bulldozer to it to pull it out. And it pulled out a shape like a pie slice, almost like it was part of the way it was constructed. When it came loose a couple feet, they stopped immediately. They didn't want to destroy the integrity of the machine. They had a guy go into it. He got in there, and it was as big as a football stadium. It was freaking him out and started making him feel nauseous, he was so disoriented because it was so gigantic inside. It was the size of a football stadium, while the outside was only about 10 metres in diameter. And space was not the only warped dimension around the craft. He staggered back out after being in there a couple of minutes, and outside it was four hours later. There was all kinds of time distortion and space distortion" (15). The same story was reported by Grusch. Is this the unmovable UFO that Coulthart is talking about?
Graves describes someone's report (unrelated to the retrieval programs) about a giant red cube (2003): video, video.
Again unrelated to the retrieval programs, there's the USS Nimitz's tictac (2004) and there's the USS Reagan's orange plasma sphere (2004).
Where are they kept?
"The sources said that the Pentagon and military contractors keep the nonhuman spacecraft in different locations, including Area 51 in Nevada, and that they move the craft around to different facilities, both military bases and contractor facilities, for research" (1).
In the interview with Joe Rogan, Grusch reports the words of Senator Harry Reid, who says that the remains of a UFO recovered in the 1950s are in the hands of Lockheed Martin, who wanted to get rid of them (given the level of secrecy, they can't call anyone to do the reverse engineering, and therefore having the material becomes useless). Reid founded the AAWSAP to create a suitable holding structure, and then tried to obtain, manage and study the aforementioned material, but the CIA did not allow it. This story matches perfectly with the one reported in Shellenberger's article (last part, "The trouble with secrecy"), which however does not name any names.
Retrieved UFOs can't be kept under military control, because they have to keep too many records, so the CIA hands the material over to private contractors for analysis, where it's not subject to government audits and can be shielded with protections for trade secrets. The Department of Energy national labs are the contractors that handle the radioactive material, the aerospace-defense industry are the contractors that handle the non-radioactive material and intact craft (14).
Where do they come from? What are they doing here?
Out of so many witnesses, none seem to have the slightest idea about that.
Do we have alien bodies?
Grusch said that "nonhuman biologics" have been recovered (6) and that "naturally, when you recover something that's either landed or crashed, sometimes you encounter dead pilots" (8). In the interview with Rogan, he said that the people who studied these biologics only have "some idea, not a complete picture" of what they are dealing with, given the difference with the human physiology; regarding a real interaction with aliens, the witnesses did not want to talk about it: video.
An article mentions the "contact and collaboration with nonhuman intelligence" (2).
Are these aliens hostile?
An article mentions the "contact and collaboration with nonhuman intelligence" (2).
An article mentions "kinetic military action with UAPs", meaning attack and/or being attacked (2).
What countries are involved apart from the U.S.?
Source? - "Some of the tech is very cutting-edge, and they have to travel to places like Italy, Belgium, and Indonesia to do flight testing" (1).
Sources A, B, C "suspected that the Chinese and Russians had also retrieved craft, but they did not know for certain" (1).
Michael Herrera's story happened in Indonesia and it involves a craft likely obtained with reverse engineering (4).
An article mentions "first-hand and second-hand reports of crash retrieval and reverse engineering programs by U.S., Russian, and Chinese governments" (2).
Did we manage to operate or reverse-engineer the craft?
Source? - "As far as I know, we are not able to operate them. There are people who say we have reverse-engineered them and are flying them. I never found any support for that. And found a lot of support for saying we can't figure it out" (1).
Source? - "The U.S. has been able to fly at least one of the retrieved craft" (1). "Some of the tech is very cutting-edge, and they have to travel to places like Italy, Belgium, and Indonesia to do flight testing. It's worldwide. Some of our allies know about the programs" (1).
Michael Herrera's story happened in Indonesia and it involves a craft likely obtained with reverse engineering (4).
An article mentions the "successful reverse engineering of a triangle-shaped craft with unconventional propulsion" (2).
Is anybody trying to stop this disclosure?
Lloyd Austin, Secretary of Defense (2, paid-for).
Mike Turner (R), Chair of the House Intelligence Committee (2, paid-for; 12, 13).
Mark Warner (D), Chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee (2, paid-for).
Mike Rogers (R), Chair of the House Armed Services Committee (12, 13).
Mitch McConnell (R), Senate Minority Leader (13).
Mike Johnson (R), Speaker of the House (13).
References
1. Michael Shellenberger, June 2023. Article.
2. Michael Shellenberger, September 2023. Article.
3. Complaint of Reprisal, May 2022. File.
6. David
Grusch, Ryan Graves, David Fravor, July 2023. Video.
7. democrats.senate.gov, July 2023. Article.
8. David Grusch, June 2023. Video.
9. thehill.com, September 2023. Article.
10. reddit.com, September 2023. Link.
11. Tim Burchett, October 2023. Video.
12. David Grusch, November 2023. Video.
13. thedebrief.org, November 2023. Article.
14. Daily Mail, November 2023. Article.
15. Daily Mail, June 2023. Article.
7. democrats.senate.gov, July 2023. Article.
8. David Grusch, June 2023. Video.
9. thehill.com, September 2023. Article.
10. reddit.com, September 2023. Link.
11. Tim Burchett, October 2023. Video.
12. David Grusch, November 2023. Video.
13. thedebrief.org, November 2023. Article.
14. Daily Mail, November 2023. Article.
15. Daily Mail, June 2023. Article.
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